BreadCaster
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DIV Graphics editor FX blur function - ingame?
Hey ho
I had a thought over the past few days (shocking, I know) - you know in the DIV graphics editor, theres a function if you select something and go to
the FX button - it's on the far right of the toolbar, and clicking it makes a sort of blurred effect on whatever is selected? You know - clicking it
repeatedly makes the graphic into a muddy sort of mess.
Well, I've just realised - I dont think I know if theres a function to modify graphics ingame like that. Like, I'd expect something in the sort of
map_xput sort of area, like map_blur(graph, amount) or something, but I can't think of anything. Is there a function like this I'm just not
remembering?
- BC
~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
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CicTec
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Hello BreadCaster,
I don't see any FX button, can you make a screenshot please ?
DIV currently has no Blur effect, this function/system needs at least 16bits colour depth to work properly.
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BreadCaster
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Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  | Hello BreadCaster,
I don't see any FX button, can you make a screenshot please ?
DIV currently has no Blur effect, this function/system needs at least 16bits colour depth to work properly. |
Sure! heres a screenshot of the FX button, it appears after youve made a selection box, on the toolbar - one of the FX possible is this blur (or anti
alias feature perhaps?) - if you do it a whole bunch of times then the image looks like this :p
 
~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
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CicTec
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Ah ok thanks,
The option was a bit hidden.
It's not a blur, but a smoothing effect, I do not know exactly which type (there are many, you should look at the source code), you can take a look
here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothing to see if someone matches what the DIV editor uses.
In any case, DIV currently has no function in the language to achieve this effect.
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BreadCaster
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| Quote: Originally posted by CicTec | Ah ok thanks,
The option was a bit hidden.
It's not a blur, but a smoothing effect, I do not know exactly which type (there are many, you should look at the source code), you can take a look
here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothing to see if someone matches what the DIV editor uses.
In any case, DIV currently has no function in the language to achieve this effect. |
ahhh I see 
Itd be cool if someone could write a function to do this on the fly for graphics in DIV! I was thinking it could be a great effect to have for a pause
screen, or the background for the player inventory haha.
Hopefully someone more technically minded will see my plea :p
~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
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RKSoft
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For blur we need 16 bit color support first. I hope DIV will get 32 bit color support in the future.
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CicTec
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| Quote: Originally posted by RKSoft | | For blur we need 16 bit color support first. I hope DIV will get 32 bit color support in the future. |
It will depend on when Mike will come back to have time for development.
The current core code is about 20 years old, adding new things with the current structure means having a lot of problems later, bad 16/32bits
rendering performance, etc... we need a complete core modernization, this can only be done with a complete rewrite.
I remember the times of DIV's Spanish community, many bugs were reported in DIV2 and many others will surely be present, what we can now do is a
massive bugfix of the existing one (where possible), and try to get an actual version of DIV as stable as possible.
| Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster | | Quote: Originally posted by CicTec | Ah ok thanks,
The option was a bit hidden.
It's not a blur, but a smoothing effect, I do not know exactly which type (there are many, you should look at the source code), you can take a look
here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoothing to see if someone matches what the DIV editor uses.
In any case, DIV currently has no function in the language to achieve this effect. |
ahhh I see
Itd be cool if someone could write a function to do this on the fly for graphics in DIV! I was thinking it could be a great effect to have for a pause
screen, or the background for the player inventory haha.
Hopefully someone more technically minded will see my plea :p |
Same speech above, technically we can add new functions, but we would find ourselves in the future to have to change the internal operation, possible
change of API name, etc ...
I'm currently completing the current core re-format for a better bugfix, in addition to other personal projects, let's see if next month I can create
a smoothing function directly in DIV code, which has a good performance, or alternatively an external function in one DLL, maybe using the same DIV
editor algorithms, so you can take advantage of the effect and avoid adding features to the current official API.
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BreadCaster
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to be honest it is quite depressing seeing progress take so long 
I only wish there were something we could do to help out, its such a shame because I feel like without having active progress and getting DIV up to
speed there just arent going to be many, if any, new developers using it.
I mean, I'm using it partly out of laziness, partly out of nostalgia and partly because I want to see what a raycasting engine can do when pushed to
its limits, but I cant even really begin to convince anyone else who talks about game dev stuff with me to give it a try. I'm still gonna stick around
of course, but yeah. Ho hum.
~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
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CicTec
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| Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster | to be honest it is quite depressing seeing progress take so long
I only wish there were something we could do to help out, its such a shame because I feel like without having active progress and getting DIV up to
speed there just arent going to be many, if any, new developers using it.
I mean, I'm using it partly out of laziness, partly out of nostalgia and partly because I want to see what a raycasting engine can do when pushed to
its limits, but I cant even really begin to convince anyone else who talks about game dev stuff with me to give it a try. I'm still gonna stick around
of course, but yeah. Ho hum. |
I understand you,
About raycasting, I think you can get good results with it, some of the most important features in the internal 3D engine (VPE) have been removed in
the build of mode8 (i do not understand why, maybe for issues of development time or bugs Activating these features and inserting 16/32bits support
you can get good old-fashioned games like DOOM2, etc..., however the engine (VPE) has the same DIV situation, it is strongly tied to 8bits, so It
requires a re-factor and rewrite in different parts to be modernized.
For now we can try to fix all the bugs present and make it usable (the DIV2 version was very unstable)
[Edited on 27-4-2017 by CicTec]
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BreadCaster
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| Quote: Originally posted by CicTec | | Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster | to be honest it is quite depressing seeing progress take so long
I only wish there were something we could do to help out, its such a shame because I feel like without having active progress and getting DIV up to
speed there just arent going to be many, if any, new developers using it.
I mean, I'm using it partly out of laziness, partly out of nostalgia and partly because I want to see what a raycasting engine can do when pushed to
its limits, but I cant even really begin to convince anyone else who talks about game dev stuff with me to give it a try. I'm still gonna stick around
of course, but yeah. Ho hum. |
I understand you,
About raycasting, I think you can get good results with it, some of the most important features in the internal 3D engine (VPE) have been removed in
the build of mode8 (i do not understand why, maybe for issues of development time or bugs Activating these features and inserting 16/32bits support
you can get good old-fashioned games like DOOM2, etc..., however the engine (VPE) has the same DIV situation, it is strongly tied to 8bits, so It
requires a re-factor and rewrite in different parts to be modernized.
For now we can try to fix all the bugs present and make it usable (the DIV2 version was very unstable)
[Edited on 27-4-2017 by CicTec] |
The kind of levels etc present in games like Doom 2 etc can be done easily already, as Dennises Div Doom showed - what Im more interested in is making
levels up to the standard of the BUILD engine, and making those games in the style of games like Condemned criminal origins etc:
Slopes, sectors over sectors, moving shadows and lights, individually fogged sectors, etc are all helpful to achieve this - Some of this is possible
without new features of the VPE being reactivated - some of them are not. I have managed to basically fake "thin wall support" in mode 8 now though
using spritebars made out of an array of graphics - caution tape, chain link fences etc
Cant wait to show you all what Ive made xo
[Edited on 28-4-2017 by BreadCaster]
~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
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CicTec
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| Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster |
The kind of levels etc present in games like Doom 2 etc can be done easily already, as Dennises Div Doom showed - what Im more interested in is making
levels up to the standard of the BUILD engine, and making those games in the style of games like Condemned criminal origins etc:
Slopes, sectors over sectors, moving shadows and lights, individually fogged sectors, etc are all helpful to achieve this - Some of this is possible
without new features of the VPE being reactivated - some of them are not. I have managed to basically fake "thin wall support" in mode 8 now though
using spritebars made out of an array of graphics - caution tape, chain link fences etc
|
Build engine is probably the best raycasting engine of that time, it supported many features, maybe some of this could be implemented in VPE, but we
should first finish studying the engine thoroughly to figure out what you can do and what not.
Expecting to see all this.
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BreadCaster
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See, I'd figured that you should technically be able to build slopes in Mode 8 by having a process that runs multiple rows of small 3*3 sprites like
this:
TOP DOWN VIEW
---
Basically like you would with small steps but sadly you cant run that many small sectors close to one anotha without mode 8 crashing
The idea was that once in the "slope sector" (the one with the equals signs above and below it), the distance between points A and B would be
calculated (just along the one axis) and then that would affect the Z value of the player camera. I never got it working though.....
[Edited on 30-4-2017 by BreadCaster]
~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
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CicTec
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| Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster | See, I'd figured that you should technically be able to build slopes in Mode 8 by having a process that runs multiple rows of small 3*3 sprites like
this:
TOP DOWN VIEW
---
|
I see, the VPE engine does not support slope sectors (like BUILD engine for example), I still do not know if it is possible to add them to the current
engine, but it would be nice to have this feature.
| Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster |
Basically like you would with small steps but sadly you cant run that many small sectors close to one anotha without mode 8 crashing
The idea was that once in the "slope sector" (the one with the equals signs above and below it), the distance between points A and B would be
calculated (just along the one axis) and then that would affect the Z value of the player camera. I never got it working though.....
[Edited on 30-4-2017 by BreadCaster] |
This is an old-time bug reported at DIV2 and never correct, the manual also states that the use of very small/near sectors causes visual errors, I
hope it can be corrected without too much trouble.
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Dennis
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Hahaha the Vape engine !! :D :D :D
Ok sorry that was spam, anyway, is mode 8 stable? I cant seem to work properly with it either ( crashes also often here)
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CicTec
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There have been bug fixes so far, there is still something missing, but in general it can be used at the moment.
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BreadCaster
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the most serious bug that i can see in mode 8 is that sometimes small sectors cause vertical "bars" of black to appear at certain distances, and that
it can also be risky for the camera to go inside sectors where the vertexes have been modified using set_m8_point - like, sometimes the camera can
glitch outside bounds and you enter the weird world where sectors have no walls and the camera doesnt collide with anything. but aside from those two
glitches, it all seems good 
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CicTec
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Yes, those that indicate are 2 problems already reported at DIV2 by the Spanish community many years ago.
The "black holes" problem should be a bug, while the other might be a problem of loss of accuracy from floating-point -> fixed-point, but it could
also be a bug.
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