Community
Message Board

Chat room - users
Game Over
( 394431 downloads)
Work In Progress
( 523201 downloads)
Links

Code Exchange
Downloads
Tutorials
Add to Favourites

Submit news

DIV ARENA FORUMS
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2
Author: Subject: MODE8 IS ALIVE! 3D (ish) games are back in DIV
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 04:36 PM


Oooh! You know what would be good: something to show us the limitations and possibilities of the mode 8 engine.

Like, I can remember that there was a function for moving the points that defined sectors, but I think it was heavily bugged - but I've always wondered, could you theoretically use that to make doors that swing open ala Dukey 3Ds build engine? Or, if you were able to manipulate basic points, then pushing about crates to make some of those early environmental puzzles seen in early 3d shooter games?

Would it be possible, theoretically speaking, to use a large map for the floor texture of a sector - so it doesn't repeat - and then dynamically update that with say, a basic spotlighting or oval shadow effect? So a player could carry around a lantern, for instance. (then again, using coloured distance fogging slightly flickering in and out might be better for that!)

Just thinking of various possibilities my 15 year old mind couldn't comprehend ;)




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 05:34 PM


Yes you can do that (all of it) check out the set* commands in the help, you can do quite funky things with it, you can move sectors about quite a lot. I started with a zone with a couple of aquare sectors within and moved those around with quite nice results.

Definitely have a play with the examples
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 06:06 PM


Hmmm... I was thinking about the example of dynamic spotlighting that i mentioned: what would be easier, in theory? Making a large graphic to set as the floor texture (possibly by loading a tile graphic and placing that tile several times over a large graphic created in memory, as to not have to make a huge MAP file for the floor texture of each room!) and then updating the grid references with lightened and darkened textures as a light source moves around...

... or splitting every sector up into several smaller boxes, and then using a function to alter the texture of the adjacent squares & the square where the light source is?


I ask this mostly in theory, as I'm not sure this is something I'd realistically attempt, but I just have a feeling that the second one may cause some problems as regards bugs/glitches with Mode8, and you're likely to be the person who knows best as to how glitchy mode 8 currently is. (I seem to recall that in the original DIV 2, if you stood right at the join between two sectors, sometimes the whole world would glitch and disappear for a second - at other times, it just plain crashed the program!)




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 09:41 PM


the black glitch is still there, but the crashes are not.

You could definitely make a world with a huge grid and dynamic light that, I'm not sure how else you could light it.

Longer term of course mode8 would be replaced with something a little less ancient and restrictive.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 10:17 PM


Yeah, that's probably a good long term strategy but tbh the game idea i have in mind would probably work a bit better with an old engine like this - the theme is archaic and to do with religious orders and caverns so it'd fit an archaic, blockier engine ;) otherwise I wouldn't be thinking of using it! Haha.

However I did want to make one request as regards the .wld editor - would it be please possible to make the maps zoomable? so you can scroll in and scroll out, maybe with the plus and minus key if not the mouse scroll wheel - because otherwise I don't know how anyone would be able to make something as finely detailed as the default wld_view map! Haha :)




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 13-6-2016 at 11:05 PM


the wld editor has always had zoom!

Z/X (same as map (graphic) editor) zoom in and out
F1/F2 same thing

right click/ drag scrolls around.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 12:06 AM


Quote: Originally posted by MikeDX  

Z/X (same as map (graphic) editor) zoom in and out


mikey you are amazing :D




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 12:10 AM


Time to go grab the latest nightly and test it then right? :)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 12:43 AM


Already been doing so, been finding the map editor a little laborious though, as there's no real sense of scale - i made a wonderful cave area, all decked out with animating pools of water, then found it was so tiny that i could barely walk around in it, and to make it larger i'd have to seperately drag every vertex outwards. just wish there was something for scale :p



~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 03:05 AM


Right, here's a little test I did. Animated floor sector, working door, with a sound effect - see if you can guess where i nicked it from, haha. :p Not very well coded but it's solid enough and could be reworked if needs be.

I'm uploading this part as an example, partially because this has a vaguely similar feel to the kind of game i'd want to make (though the movement would need work first - head bob, footstep sound effects, jumping, different camera heights depending on step down/lower sectors etc), but also because there are mode 8 bugs aplenty in this.

Lots of walking through walls and ending up with just vertical slices of the WLD showing with no walls rendering at all. I'm going to guess this is because of the two sectors by the door, but I'm not really sure how else this could be done without having to literally press the camera up against the wall, which isn't a particularly polished way to navigate a 3D world :p

Attachment: mode8example.rar (149kB)
This file has been downloaded 3912 times





~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 11:44 AM


That''s actually really cool

I didn't experience any black sections though, I wonder whether that's specific to the platform you used to develop it on.

I uploaded a web build of it. I did manage to get stuck inside the door which was fun (Did it deliberately to try to get the black screen bug)

http://js.mikedx.co.uk/bcm8.html

For the wld scale thing that's a good point.. i wonder if there's any merit in adding a scale option to either start mode8 or load_wld

Or whether its even worth doing at all, it's still a bit of a limited 3D mode and I'm sure we can do better.



[Edited on 14-6-2016 by MikeDX]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 01:01 PM


Personally, I think if you want to "go further" then something like "mode 8 plus" would be a good option. Rendering 3d models in raytraced spaces, the ability to do sloped floors like in the build engine, and flat polys to add environmental details like hanging vines to areas. A full 3D mode would be a lot of work from the ground up and I don't think it's fair for anyone to hold their breath on it just yet :p

As for the door test, it was developed on windows 8 and I just had the bug while playing it in browser on Mac OSX as well. I'm surprised you were able to get stuck in the door considering that I added a if m8_sector<>door-sector-and-the-two-sectors-right-outside-the-door code :p




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 01:20 PM


Weird. Well, there's room for improvement that's for sure.

Dom Cook is a bit of a 3D whizz, I'm going to get him to help me with the future 3D stuff - we are already in talks of a modeV (or 5 if you like) which is vector 3D space, and that's quite exciting for me. I'm not a huge 3D fan myself and never really have been - although if we had the ability to do things like super mario 64... that would change my mind.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 02:10 PM


Next stage for that is surely getting shading between the vertexes, even if it's just flat with no textures, just colours. Then texture mapping, and then eventually loading models. If there were a way to interpret a standard 3d format into vertexes, so the program essentially reads and converts the model to a DIV compatible format in the memory, then you're laughing (that is until you get to incorporating animations :P )

Personally - and this is just from what I've seen - I think the wireframe 3D is a great step towards full 3D, but it really isn't enough to sell the language on it's own.It does need additional stages to make it work in the long run - collisions, texture mapping, diffuse and specular shading, distance fogging, static and dynamic lighting, the loading and animation of models in a standardised format (there's no point models being in some kind of custom format like a .DXM (dx model) if people can't use preexisting programs to make models for it, unless someone's going to release a full 3D modeling tool made in DIVDX). And last but not least: shadows. From what I understand, shadows in video games are generally rendered using a third party engine - not developed in house - and they can be hard as balls to program.

A raycasting engine is fine because people see that as basically being like the DOOM or Build engine, they know what to expect. There are a lot of games made with those engines, and there's enough nostalgia for it to be of some value. People have fond memories of Heretic, DOOM, Shadow Warrior, Rise of the Triad, and while they do look crap by todays standards, there's enough nostalgia for it to be a draw to a few people, more I'd say than just wireframe 3D without the progression to a full 3D engine. Just my two cents :p

[Edited on 14-6-2016 by BreadCaster]




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 03:41 PM


Quote: Originally posted by MikeDX  

For the wld scale thing that's a good point.. i wonder if there's any merit in adding a scale option to either start mode8 or load_wld


Personally, i'd like to see a selection box (click & drag, rts style) for selecting vertices, and a copy paste tool for sectors from other wlds/the same wlds (stripping that sector of its textures in the process, of course).




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 04:00 PM


Well lets not forget Ant had ModeA a long time ago, and that worked well, and another version of the dll that could load quake md2 models, so it's all doable. Sadly the latter is mostly asm..

It's going to be a different ballgame once we go 32bit colour anyway, and since DIV is now in active development, we can be sure the future is bright :)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 05:20 PM


here you go Dan, I used your demo as a test of the android build

Works a treat :)


croppedScreenshot_1465924606325_.png - 493kB


One thing to try with your wall problem, set yourself a radius value (and maybe a height) value in your camera process. It should prevent you from being able to go "into the wall"

[Edited on 14-6-2016 by MikeDX]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
BreadCaster
Loyalty Card Holder
******


Avatar


Posts: 321
Registered: 2-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 09:33 PM


Haha, wish I'd known that before now - literally just finished doing some more work on it! Oh well.

Nice to see it working on android :)

Here's an updated version, with more sound, a basic "puzzle" if you can call it that and a few changes. See if you can figure out how to get to the stone door ;)

I won't be doing anything else with Mode8 until the 32 bit colour is in, but this is the kind of feel of the thing I wanted to create. Something between Quake 1 and Dungeon Keeper, lots of sacrificial alters and flickering candles with sector by sector psudo-lighting :)

(had to upload to sendspace - this is a whole 7.8 MEGABYTES, holy hell batman - https://www.sendspace.com/file/uu7avh )




~*~ Princess of Pies and Pastries ~*~
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-6-2016 at 11:21 PM


Have I got some silly attachment limit here? I've upped that to 20mb now instead of 2, so you can add it here now if you want.

I'm going to go give it a play...


Ah it's huge because you're using wavs. Get oggs in there dude. DIV supports those nicely ;)

Played it, works very nicely. I'm currently working on the packager for div but I'll make a new android build soon and upload it :)

[Edited on 14-6-2016 by MikeDX]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MikeDX
DIV Nerd
*********


Avatar


Posts: 8388607
Registered: 25-2-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 17-6-2016 at 06:12 PM


I've compiled and uploaded this to the js site:

http://js.mikedx.co.uk/cavern.html

Most ports have squashed down to about 2mb, which is nice :)

however there are some serious glitches I need to look into - and thats both an annoyance and useful...

[Edited on 17-6-2016 by MikeDX]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2

  Go To Top

Powered by XMB
XMB Forum Software © 2001-2012 The XMB Group
[Queries: 18]