DIV ARENA FORUMS

DIV needs YOUR help!

MikeDX - 4-4-2016 at 07:55 PM

As some of you may be aware, DIV Development has been mostly done by myself over the past 6 months, taking the old DIV DOS source and bringing it to all the modern platforms we all know and (almost) love.

We have reached a point however where there isn't much more I can do to generate more interest in DIV. I've exhausted all of my experience in terms of posting to news sites, posting regular updates on twitter, creating youtube videos, entering competitions and even updating the DIV ports as often as possible.

if things are to go forward now, I need as many of you as possible to start spreading the word, be that on twitter, facebook, gamedev forums, reddit, anything you can think of.

Without your support, we're fighting a losing battle. The forum gets less and less hits every day, and the overall page views have dropped significantly the past couple of weeks.

So, who's with me? Can you help make this community great again?


Dazzy - 4-4-2016 at 08:26 PM

I've been out of the games scene for so long not sure if I could be of any help. One of the biggest problems I see is there is simply way more choice today when it comes to game creators than there was in 2000.

Is there even a market for DIV in its current state? I don't know what does everyone else think? I know from experience low page views can be demotivating. It's hard to know what to say, what was your initial motivation for beginning to work on DIV after so many years? Maybe if I could understand the reasoning behind it maybe then I could think of ways to help. But like I said I've been out of the scene for so long, not really a big social network user either.

MikeDX - 4-4-2016 at 08:38 PM

My plan was to port div to modern platforms and then once the port was finished, push the boundaries and go 32bit and improved IDE. neither of those things will help DIV's place in the world, in fact anything I do now will have little impact until we get more users.

Retro is "in", most of the games released nowadays have < 255 colours.

Maybe DIV has had its day.

Dazzy - 4-4-2016 at 08:58 PM

I know I am not the right person here since my gaming over the past 10 - 12 years has consisted of tomb raider and assassins creed, xboxes have primarily used for TV.

My mobile gaming isn't much better, age of empires and that's basically it.

Div was defiantly easier than darkbasic and blitzbasic in its day, how does it stack up these days against other systems?

What could really give you a boost is if you could convince one of the old guard who have good traction in mobile to create a game and release it on mobile and highlight it was created with DIV but that is a long play for sure. Is there anyone currently doing that?

I don't want to seam like I am totally negative it is good to see you trying to bring it back. Hope you keep it going.

MikeDX - 4-4-2016 at 09:19 PM

I think getting anyone to use it would be a start. I've released *loads* of games ported to modern systems, on pandora, gcwzero, windows, linux etc, all have the "made with div" banner and links to the site. We have no shortage of content (although to be fair there is a right load of rubbish in the wips too).

In my opinion, div is still the fastest and easiest way to make games and plenty of people have started with DIV and gone on to have successful programming careers. Saying that, I'm probably biased.




humildadever - 4-4-2016 at 09:28 PM

Hi I think is important connect all older user of div!

History of div is important... Had access of material old is important for build new projects

What all of us want? I think is a platform like div2 but for use in new Windows that can connect other platforms!


And I think that one mark for have respect need had some commercial valor!
Your 32 bits ide u can sell it! Myself bought the dvd or cd with that!


Is important a magazine!
Is important new users that don t know nothing about programming ! I want that my child can learn programming div!
Is important a project game and all us participate, like designs, history etc etc
Is important a base code

Dazzy - 4-4-2016 at 09:35 PM

It's easy for me to say but I'd say keep working on it for the rest of 2016 and you'll have the more modern ide done and maybe a 3D engine added. I can't recall but did fasttrak do much promotion back in the day of was it mostly word of mouth?

I don't know what it is with me but if I look at code and study it I can usually get a good idea of what it is doing but when it comes to coding my mind freezes and I never can get started.

BreadCaster - 4-4-2016 at 10:00 PM

I'd be happy for CyberCrisis to be released on DIVDX rather than (or as well as) Bennu once it's done, if someone else will port it from one to the other for me :p

Would be happy to stick a MADE IN DIV banner on the title screen of it too. Unfortunately my PC is currently being repaired but it'll be back next week and after that I'm planning to stick a few screenshots on the forum (I've been doing sprite work for it on my Macbook over the past few days). I'll open a wordpress page and upload it to something like sendspace, and send the link around a few places - it's a fun game, at least it keeps me entertained for hours, more than I can say for some commercial titles.

The truth is, the best thing we can do to get it out there is make fun little freeware games and have them as accessible across as many platforms as possible. So that'd mean focusing primarily on iPhone and Android versions of the language, and making porting from PC as easy as possible. Does anyone here know of the Vinesauce community? They love to stream all kinds of interesting quirky games and they're always looking for a new thing. I might send it over to them once it's done.

MikeDX - 4-4-2016 at 10:51 PM

We have LOADS of games already, and every non dos (and non html, but thats a technical issue) for many platforms available from this site, each with a splash screen build into the game when you make the release binary.

There have been android builds of games along with open source consoles, raspberry pi etc for a long time but nearly no downloads at all. There isnt any activity about it, the only one really posting about div anywhere is me and what little news we can grab from it.

If every person posted something, to their websites, facebook, twitter, reddit, or something similar, we'd see more users, and if they did the same. and so on, but sadly this doesnt happen.

BreadCaster - 4-4-2016 at 11:01 PM

Yeah, but where are the people who made the games? They're not recent releases they're going to shout from the rooftops about, they're older games they made that you managed to convert/get running for modern OS's. We need *new* games (additionally, I don't know if it's just on my PC and Macbook but the HTML Div games lag a lot).

A lot of the WIPs and Game overs are also not exactly the most polished of creations, they're relics of game designers learning their craft and *some* of them are great and quite well polished (Turkey Run, for instance)... but a lot of them aren't (nothing I created, short of possibly "Clones" or "Upspring" - neither of which never got released here on Div-Arena - could even charitably be called a game).

Also, I don't really have any friends interested in game development or PC gaming IRL - mobile, sort of, but most of the focus is on Xbox 360/One and PS3/PS4.

RKSoft - 5-4-2016 at 11:27 AM

First, i'm with you and you know that, Mike!

We should not look at the older programmers, only. We need new and young peoples for DIV. And, we need a final release for compiling our own games for the different systems. And i think, the IDE is outdated. Ie., i use Notepad++ for HTML, CSS, PHP and Pawn.

Also, we need:

- an editor for FPG- and Map-files that comes with todays features
- MP3 and OGG Support
- XInput support (Windows) for playstation and XBox controllers (most of my friends do play with one of these controllers)
- a fresh young design for DIV Arena - the current style, we love it, but it is from an aera that the web was young (the website is the window to DIV!)
- a forum software with todays features (ie: when i do a post it will not move to the latest post)
- finally, compiling our own programms for releasing

I think these things are important than other things.

For the social networks, i'm only in Google+. So, i can share your news.


PS:
we need fine releases, so visitors takes a look what DIV can. When we have some nice releases the community will be bigger, i hope.

BreadCaster - 5-4-2016 at 12:29 PM

A basic built in 3D polygonal engine is likely to be integral to attract most new developers. Something up to the Quake 3 engine sort of level of tech is sort of a minimum I would of thought (though I'd personally love to make something on an old, blockier engine similar to Quake 1. Anyone here played Devil Daggers? Something like that. I love retro 3D!)

humildadever - 7-4-2016 at 10:33 PM

Why not try collaborate with gemix and bennu?

dom cook - 9-4-2016 at 06:56 PM

For me DIV's strength is its simplicity. It's the perfect tool for retro games and as you said retro is in. I don't see any need or point in trying to go head to head with the big boys of today. There's too much choice already. Play to your strengths. Market it as a tool for hobbyists.
Have you considered the possibility of making DIV available on the Ubuntu Software Center? That could get it some exposure.

MikeDX - 9-4-2016 at 07:19 PM

I think the software centre may be a good place to go, I hadn't considered that. I'm going to register now and see what we can do.


humildadever - 9-4-2016 at 09:28 PM



dom cook good idea

:):):):)

franjaosan - 17-4-2016 at 11:01 AM

Hello!!
Sorry, my english is very bad.

Please, float or real variables first!! for me is essencial, my world is not only integer.

Thanks!!
:):)

Sandman - 20-4-2016 at 11:15 PM

True, real variables are of importance.

OScoder - 21-4-2016 at 09:55 AM

Once you finish the first 90% of a project, you have to finish the other 90% :P

DIV has an excellent language for beginners and is great for building smaller projects really fast. It's not got 3d that can compete with current games right now and won't for a while. What it does have is excellent 2d and it's perfect for retro-style games.

I can see there's a bit of a market atm for retro-style games on PC, but I'm not sure how large? Anyway, where I think DIV will shine is mobile games and web games! This is what will make me inspired to use it and to get others to. I've tried out the nightly build though and I can't see how compiling to html5 is done? And I've got no easy way to test a game for different screen sizes, etc. A short tutorial on how to make DIV games work well on the tablet/mobile would be a massive step I think in encouraging people to use it. The Games Creators have some kind of mobile game kit but it's either basic or c++ - we can beat that!

The second area I think DIV could make headway in is the "learn to code" fad sweeping the uk right now. It's a perfect choice for beginners because, let's face it, most coding is frickin boring! Whether it's making a c-program to ask your name and say hello or a python program to display a graph - the low level of visual feedback makes it dull as hell. Your main competitor here is basic - which teaches terrible habits and is extremely hard to maintain a medium-sized codebase on. I don't now the best way to get into this market but in terms of tutorials, etc DIV really isn't far off. I'll definitely recommend it to friends with kids who want to learn to code! DIV is the perfect middle-ground between languages that are too simple to learn useful skills and languages with a massive learning curve.

Honestly, in the medium term I think what would make DIV take off is an editor that runs directly on mobile devices. Game-dev is still seen as something you do on a PC then port to mobile - even though lots of young people these days only have iPhones or tablets. If you could port the editor to android and ios and make it usable - you'd have a huge number of people interested!

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I will make an effort to recommend DIV but that will be effective when it's more polished tbh. It always takes time for things to pick up but this community is an excellent start. Get the quality right and the quantity will follow :)

MikeDX - 21-4-2016 at 02:36 PM

Thanks for your input OScoder.

We do have a div for android, in fact its a near perfect port aside from some input issues. You can easily run DIV on a tablet or phone with a bluetooth or usb keyboard + mouse, but using the native inputs (on screen keyboard / touch) is a challenge.

You're right about the 90% thing. The first 90% takes 10% of the time, the last 10% takes 90%...

With that in mind, we will have a FULL DIV project completed in 5 years time :D

Adherbal - 21-4-2016 at 06:01 PM

We've waited 15 years, what's another 5 ;-)

BreadCaster - 21-4-2016 at 09:21 PM

Additionally, if you're going to focus soley on 2d (which I agree might be a good idea as Unity and Unreal 3 are both available and harder to compete with), perhaps see if you can work out some sort of "convert from Bennu" and "convert from Fenix" free programs so if people want to get on board with DivDX instead then they can (as DivDX offers android versions etc that are harder to make work across multiple platforms as far as I know).

I'd happily do that if there were a way to port easily but it's not worth trying to tweak >11,000 lines of code to just get it compiled in DivDX instead! :p

MikeDX - 21-4-2016 at 09:23 PM

Whilst that might sound nice in theory, Bennu has forked from the DIV standard, not the other way around! There's no saying there is any level of compatibility between the two and realistically, seasoned bennu / fenix users arent really the target, but new blood is.

Besides which, there really isnt much use in using DIV if your code already works in bennu since its the same thing really.

however... if you want to make a converter... it sounds like you're volunteering ;)

MikeDX - 21-4-2016 at 09:30 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Adherbal  
We've waited 15 years, what's another 5 ;-)


That's optimistic ;)

BreadCaster - 22-4-2016 at 10:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MikeDX  
Whilst that might sound nice in theory, Bennu has forked from the DIV standard, not the other way around! There's no saying there is any level of compatibility between the two and realistically, seasoned bennu / fenix users arent really the target, but new blood is.

Besides which, there really isnt much use in using DIV if your code already works in bennu since its the same thing really.

however... if you want to make a converter... it sounds like you're volunteering ;)


I guess I'd just like to get involved as I'm liable to be hanging around the DivDX forums for a while and releasing and posting about my Bennu game here when it's done, and it'd be nice to be working in DivDX because I've a lot of nostalgia for it - but in reality, in DivDX's current form it's just not justifiable. It offers nothing not already in Bennu except features that I don't want, and lacks features that Bennu has.

And in no way am I volunteering. I wouldn't know where to begin and to be honest, I've got too many other non programming related projects on to even justify the amount I'm already doing (I'm mainly making CyberCrisis so I've something I can enjoy playing, as most video games I've played don't scratch that itch.)

MikeDX - 23-4-2016 at 02:26 AM

Of course, the volunteering is purely tongue in cheek

Anyway, DIV *does* offer something bennu doesnt - a good IDE, export to various formats...

Well, i say "good" - it's getting better.

BreadCaster - 23-4-2016 at 08:15 AM

True but like I said before, unless Div can offer Photoshop grade image manipulation (layers, layer effects, textures, filters, a great range of selection tools etc) and Goldwave level sound manipulation (flanger, pitch shift, fade in/out, mixing, reverb etc) then using the DivDX IDE would be a downgrade. The exporting to various formats is a cool feature, although I can't test on that many other things else as I only own a Mac, PC a pretty old android.

nullzero - 5-5-2016 at 07:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RKSoft  
First, i'm with you and you know that, Mike!

We should not look at the older programmers, only. We need new and young peoples for DIV. And, we need a final release for compiling our own games for the different systems. And i think, the IDE is outdated. Ie., i use Notepad++ for HTML, CSS, PHP and Pawn.

Also, we need:

- an editor for FPG- and Map-files that comes with todays features
- MP3 and OGG Support
- XInput support (Windows) for playstation and XBox controllers (most of my friends do play with one of these controllers)
- a fresh young design for DIV Arena - the current style, we love it, but it is from an aera that the web was young (the website is the window to DIV!)
- a forum software with todays features (ie: when i do a post it will not move to the latest post)
- finally, compiling our own programms for releasing

.


I back up RKSoft's ideas.

Nowadays with the console trend and even steamOS, playing with a controller as become a norm (just like the wasd+mouse as for the FPS). So that is one thing.

The forum and website can be off putting by today's standards, and like he said its a window into the div scene, and first impressions are important (like the first impression of seeing the div1 or 2 cd+book in a store a years back)

MikeDX - 5-5-2016 at 01:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by nullzero  

Nowadays with the console trend and even steamOS, playing with a controller as become a norm (just like the wasd+mouse as for the FPS). So that is one thing.


I agree, and full gamepad support is coming.
Quote: Originally posted by nullzero  


The forum and website can be off putting by today's standards, and like he said its a window into the div scene, and first impressions are important (like the first impression of seeing the div1 or 2 cd+book in a store a years back)


Well, if this is really the case, we are screwed. The website part of div-arena is about as good as it's going to get, however the forum really is an echo of 2005.

So, if anyone wants to submit a new design / html / javascript / css for the main site + forum, be my guest, because sadly what you see on the homepage and the pages beneath (not the forum) are about the limit of my ability. If a responsive, mvc framework backed bootstrap / jquery driven site isnt modern then please show me what I should be using and doing to make it more so.

nullzero - 8-5-2016 at 07:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MikeDX  

Quote: Originally posted by nullzero  


The forum and website can be off putting by today's standards, and like he said its a window into the div scene, and first impressions are important (like the first impression of seeing the div1 or 2 cd+book in a store a years back)


Well, if this is really the case, we are screwed. The website part of div-arena is about as good as it's going to get, however the forum really is an echo of 2005.

So, if anyone wants to submit a new design / html / javascript / css for the main site + forum, be my guest, because sadly what you see on the homepage and the pages beneath (not the forum) are about the limit of my ability.


The thing is... the div-arena.co.uk seems a good community page, it has focus on the news/blog part, many links, integrated forum, and so on. It definitely works.

But... as in "the DIV's future" I (personally) think it doesn't function well as a landing page for a new dev looking for a platform to design his/her games on. Its not a technical issue. But it may impact how you want to "sell" the product.

Some examples:

EXAMPLE 1 - Phaser - HTML5 game framework

Here we get a one page with a big bright picture, stating what it is (game framework), the price (free) and the target platforms (desktop and mobile), and download link. Then we have the features section stating some of the things it can do well, then a the news, where many of the links are tutorials/examples, then getting started steps and finally some games showcase.

EXAMPLE 2 - Love 2D - lua open source game engine

Here they start with a tagline describing what it is (game framework), laguange it is based on (lua), price (free open source), targets (win, mac, linux, iOs, android). Then there are the download link focusing on different platforms available. Then open source description and community links. Then some code examples of lua syntax highlighted (adding images, sound and text) and some game showcases.

DISCUSSION

So, they actually don't work as a community site, but instead focus on grabbing the attention of a future dev. They state clearly its a game framework, the price model, programming base, and target platforms. They give some inicial examples of what it can do, the tools it includes, hopefully some tutorials or section to get started, and some nice selection of games made with it.

Now the div-arena.co.uk site has it all, but these info for a new landing dev are not clearly stated at the beginning of the site in a pretty manner.

Now I wouldn't like to have the site to be replaced with a pretty one page advertising land page. But maybe some thing like that could be anexed? Like having a small paragraph beneath the DIV ARENA - Making games since 1996! - saying in two lines what it is, what it targets and a link getting started. Or in the "Welcome Stranger" box, a link for a features included page, or "hey new dev, look here what this framework can do for you!"

So maybe all it would be needed was a separate page (under the same domain), where it would be described easily what div is, how can it help, what are its main strenghts, target platforms, price model, links for recomended tutorials and a getting started steps with pictures :cool:

BOTTOM LINE

Divarena works as a good community site, but If someone on reddit ask "hey please I'm looking for a platform to learn and develop a game one" and I want to give a link for DIV, there should be a pretty page with at explained for first time users focusing on what it is, what it can do, and some tutorial and examples. This would be the link I would give, (like div.arena.co.uk/features) instead of the root page of div.arena.co.uk

This doesn't tear up all the other work you had to implement this site and forum. As I'm very much grateful for you to bring DIV back :D
Quote: Originally posted by MikeDX  

If a responsive, mvc framework backed bootstrap / jquery driven site isnt modern then please show me what I should be using and doing to make it more so.



Oh ant neat, didn't notice it was reactive, sorry maybe I'm too judging the book for its cover :spin:

wasabi - 14-11-2016 at 05:10 PM

Let me start saluting all community and thanking this unexpected DIV 3. This was a very special item from my childhood, my dad bought it to me when I was 11 years old and it was mind-blowing. Daniel Navarro put a lot of care on it and to me, it still the most complete and comfy Kit for game develpment. Sure, it's aged and limited, but this restrictions may work as soil for a particular style (i.e. GameBoy 4-colour [greys] palette)
If you stick to basis and adapt your assets, DIV can make games with enough quality to be sold in stores on the 90s.
Can't post at FB, twitter or related because I haven't account and not willing to, but surely I can spread the word in my usual sites like Assembler-games, Resident Evil Modding Forums, etc.
We'll keep in touch.

BreadCaster - 14-11-2016 at 05:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  
Let me start saluting all community and thanking this unexpected DIV 3. This was a very special item from my childhood, my dad bought it to me when I was 11 years old and it was mind-blowing. Daniel Navarro put a lot of care on it and to me, it still the most complete and comfy Kit for game develpment. Sure, it's aged and limited, but this restrictions may work as soil for a particular style (i.e. GameBoy 4-colour [greys] palette)
If you stick to basis and adapt your assets, DIV can make games with enough quality to be sold in stores on the 90s.
Can't post at FB, twitter or related because I haven't account and not willing to, but surely I can spread the word in my usual sites like Assembler-games, Resident Evil Modding Forums, etc.
We'll keep in touch.


The real deal breaker for me is the 256 colours. I enjoy a lot of 2D games these days, which was not really the case back when I made a lot in DIV (most of those abhorrant games I attempted to make looked pretty awful haha)... I'm happy enough making a 2D game with prerendered 3D graphics for now but in order to get the kind of lighting, shades, tones etc to render a world in any sort of vaguely semi-realistic fashion, DivDX will need at least 16 bit colour :/

wasabi - 14-11-2016 at 10:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

The real deal breaker for me is the 256 colours. I enjoy a lot of 2D games these days, which was not really the case back when I made a lot in DIV (most of those abhorrant games I attempted to make looked pretty awful haha)... I'm happy enough making a 2D game with prerendered 3D graphics for now but in order to get the kind of lighting, shades, tones etc to render a world in any sort of vaguely semi-realistic fashion, DivDX will need at least 16 bit colour :/

Oh, I remember and have to agree with you... back then I was like "Im gonna create a Resident Evil or Tomb Raider clone, yep all by myself and it will be great" finally i only did a couple of shooters (copying the book example) and was also my first approach to modding (changin Tokenkai sprites, enhancing gore fx... god ol'days :smilegrin:)
I got to agree too with the point of gettin 16bit colour, this little feature means increase DIV games like from NES to SNES/early PSX 2D games. This would be awesome, but let me repeat again that something good can come from less 256 colours (DOS Another World, i.e. 16 colours)
I always found annoying, even back at 98, the MODE8 restriction to get a total "top-down" camera angle. That's another little change that would greatly increase the possibilities, like doing floating platforms which is impossible ATM because sectors can only be raised from ground or ceiling.
I'm sure that many of us also agree that we don't want DIV to be Unity, UDK... just like NetYaroze, something capable to render PSX lowpoly graphics would make my day.
EDIT: DIV physics needs an update too... but the actual port is pure love.

[Edited on 14-11-2016 by wasabi]

CicTec - 15-11-2016 at 09:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

I got to agree too with the point of gettin 16bit colour, this little feature means increase DIV games like from NES to SNES/early PSX 2D games. This would be awesome, but let me repeat again that something good can come from less 256 colours (DOS Another World, i.e. 16 colours)

Hello wasabi,

As says in another thread, graphics support 16/32bits is in development, this will not be a problem.
Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

I always found annoying, even back at 98, the MODE8 restriction to get a total "top-down" camera angle. That's another little change that would greatly increase the possibilities, like doing floating platforms which is impossible ATM because sectors can only be raised from ground or ceiling.

Well, actually the original mode8 has some limitations it is true, however, we noticed that Hammer has only included some functionality available from the real internal engine used for mode8, we must finish to examine all the features it has and see if we can add more, in any case, anyway DivDX, in addition to mode8 will have a real 3D engine more modern (or maybe more than one, who knows).
Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

I'm sure that many of us also agree that we don't want DIV to be Unity, UDK... just like NetYaroze, something capable to render PSX lowpoly graphics would make my day.

Really the DIV goal is not to be like Unity, but to be able to support the majority of the game engine features of the 21st century.
Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

EDIT: DIV physics needs an update too... but the actual port is pure love.

DIV does not really have any physics engine, this will be fully included once that there is support for floating point data and other features.

BreadCaster - 15-11-2016 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

I always found annoying, even back at 98, the MODE8 restriction to get a total "top-down" camera angle. That's another little change that would greatly increase the possibilities, like doing floating platforms which is impossible ATM because sectors can only be raised from ground or ceiling.


Theoretically, you could make a mode 8 platformer provided that the platforms were sort of floating in a void... :p

For example, look at the quick thing I sketched up. Red lines are one sector, black lines are another sector, and the numbers in them are the floor heights. Green points are vertices.

Now, imagine that the black sector is fully textured - floor and walls, only the ceiling is left blank. But for the red sector - the walls, floor, ceiling, all of it has no texture, so it'll just show the background graphic of the WLD file. The red sector will hide the lower parts of the walls of the black sector, making it appear floating - voila, a "floating" platform. ;)

You could then make it move around using the get_point_m8 and set_point_m8 commands on all the vertices (green dots).

Granted, this will have the issue of hiding anything else behind it, so this would literally be for platforms floating totally in void. If anything like a lower platform or a structure or something were behind the red sector, it too would be hidden.

example.jpg - 15kB

[Edited on 15-11-2016 by BreadCaster]

wasabi - 15-11-2016 at 05:32 PM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

As says in another thread, graphics support 16/32bits is in development, this will not be a problem.

Thanks for bring me those good news, CicTec. I must passed over it.
Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

...original mode8...has only included some functionality available from the real internal engine. we must finish to examine all the features it has and see if we can add more, in any case, anyway DivDX, in addition to mode8 will have a real 3D engine more modern (or maybe more than one, who knows).

This is just amazing. So maybe m8 engine still have hidden features (i always missed the draw distance thing). I'll soon upload screenshots of my work with DIV 3D editor for share and learn purposes.
Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

DIV does not really have any physics engine, this will be fully included once that there is support for floating point data and other features.

Yes, you're right. I'm spanish and when I'm too excited can't control my written expression.
Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

For example, look at the quick thing I sketched up... voila, a "floating" platform. ;)

Hey, that's was a nice idea for real! I practiced it a little and it have many possibilities. i.e. you can make 3d rooms with few walls blank and put the camera in the void, getting something like a diorama or the rooms seen in Clock Tower (PSX). Also, it come handy to make a sort of overworld screen like old-school rpgs.

Thanks a lot for sharing your technique, that's not nowadays common.:)
EDIT: Yes, "inspired" by Snatcher's Neo-Kobe.

[Edited on 15-11-2016 by wasabi]

CicTec - 15-11-2016 at 06:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  
Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

As says in another thread, graphics support 16/32bits is in development, this will not be a problem.

Thanks for bring me those good news, CicTec. I must passed over it.

No problem. :)
Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

...original mode8...has only included some functionality available from the real internal engine. we must finish to examine all the features it has and see if we can add more, in any case, anyway DivDX, in addition to mode8 will have a real 3D engine more modern (or maybe more than one, who knows).

This is just amazing. So maybe m8 engine still have hidden features (i always missed the draw distance thing). I'll soon upload screenshots of my work with DIV 3D editor for share and learn purposes.

Yes, we do not know why, but several features have been eliminated/ reduced, for example mode8 use a unique room with a 2048 height, but the internal engine supports rooms above rooms and I think without limits.

Very interesting, we wait to see this project in mode8. :)
Quote: Originally posted by wasabi  

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

DIV does not really have any physics engine, this will be fully included once that there is support for floating point data and other features.

Yes, you're right. I'm spanish and when I'm too excited can't control my written expression.

No problem, If you have difficulty writing in English, you can also do it in spanish.

Animo con tu proyecto. ;)

[Edited on 15-11-2016 by CicTec]

wasabi - 16-11-2016 at 01:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

No problem, If you have difficulty writing in English, you can also do it in spanish.

Animo con tu proyecto. ;)

Gracias! lo tendré en cuenta! Y perdona por la confusion... la foto de este hilo era una prueba de la idea que dio BreadCaster. Mi proyecto lo puedes ver en el hilo de screenshots.

"The pic I posted in this thread it's not from any project, just for test purposes to see BreadCaster's idea possibilities".

CicTec - 16-11-2016 at 10:06 AM

De nada, no te preocupes, no pasa nada, mirare tu proyecto en la seccion screenshot, animo con ello. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No problem, do not worry, I'll see your project in the screenshots section, good job. :)

BreadCaster - 16-11-2016 at 05:51 PM

Here's my attempt :)

Also attempted something using a similar technique to make mode 8 floating platforms you can walk under, in an attempt to create things like bus shelters, the appearance of an overhead walkway, a garage... notice that all these areas are outdoors however, because any sprites or sectors behind the negative space used to make the "above the platform" space will just disappear :p attached an image of that as well.

By the way, CicTec/Mikey - is there any way to modify the background graphic of the .WLD file on the fly? So we could possibly make animating backgrounds, etc, that sort of thing.

Floating platforms example.png - 98kBbus shelter.png - 164kB

CicTec - 16-11-2016 at 06:41 PM

Hello BreadCaster,

I see that you can only set a fixed background currently, however I think we can add support for change in realtime with animation easily.

BreadCaster - 16-11-2016 at 08:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  
Hello BreadCaster,

I see that you can only set a fixed background currently, however I think we can add support for change in realtime with animation easily.


Hurray! Thanks CicTec =)

CicTec - 16-11-2016 at 11:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  
Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  
Hello BreadCaster,

I see that you can only set a fixed background currently, however I think we can add support for change in realtime with animation easily.


Hurray! Thanks CicTec =)

No problem, I am looking at the code and should be easy to add support, maybe a new function to set the graph of background in a dynamic way.

You may in the meantime perform a test please ?
would be simple:
- Create a graph black to insert in the FPG that is used for the background.
- set using the editor the previous chart as background for the WLD.
- Use the following code in your example animation background:
Code:
background_anim = N; loop map_put(fpgwld_id, background_graph, background_anim, 0, 0); background_anim++; if(background_anim > M) background_anim = N; end frame; end

where:
- fpgwld_id is the fpg used for the texture of the world.
- background_graph is the code of the graph black used for the background.
- background_anim is the code of the graph of the animation of the background.
- N is the code of the initial graph of the animation of the background (of your choice).
- M is the code of the final graph of the animation of the background (of your choice).

It is a simple test to see if the engine supports the automatic update of the graph used for the background.

Thanks in advance.

BreadCaster - 17-11-2016 at 12:03 AM

Nope, just tried that quick test and it didn't work. I know that the background_graph was animating though, because I had the code you wrote up there ^^^^ in a process, set its graph to background_graph and made sure it was on screen - and sure enough, there it was, running the animation - but the mode 8 WLD wasn't updating.

CicTec - 17-11-2016 at 12:12 AM

Mmmm, probably creates and uses a copy static inner from the graph indicated in WLD, i check.

anyway, the code of the example could have a slow performance, it would be ideal to have a function (or more) native, any suggestion is welcome.

Many thanks again to the test.

BreadCaster - 17-11-2016 at 12:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  
Mmmm, probably creates and uses a copy static inner from the graph indicated in WLD, i check.

anyway, the code of the example could have a slow performance, it would be ideal to have a function (or more) native, any suggestion is welcome.

Many thanks again to the test.


That's okay!

I mean, a mode8_setbackground(graph) function would be good, that changes the graphic and then auto-refreshes. It would only need to refresh one file in the .FPG as it's not possible to display two background on one WLD file as far as I know :)

Thanks for looking into this! As for me I'm still playing around with making effects for creating interesting WLDs so I may use them in my planned game, coming much later once 32 bit colour is in :p

CicTec - 17-11-2016 at 12:47 AM

The name i think is appropriate, parameters could be 2, with the following prototype: MODE8_SET_BACKGROUND(INT graph_first, INT graph_last), where "graph_first" would be the first graph of the animation, "graph_last" the last graph of the animation, if both have the same value you will have a static background as now.

The function would be so called out of the loop, and any change to the animation graphics would be updated in real time.
Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  
It would only need to refresh one file in the .FPG as it's not possible to display two background on one WLD file as far as I know :)

Currently only supports a background, which utility see to have two backgrounds ?
Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

Thanks for looking into this! As for me I'm still playing around with making effects for creating interesting WLDs so I may use them in my planned game, coming much later once 32 bit colour is in :p

Thanks to you, I am working to add support 16/32bits also for the Mode8, but requires time, the internal motor is strongly linked to the single mode 8bit, requires rewriting in many points.

If later you have a WLD of example and textures to 32bits, would be very useful for testing the new support.

BreadCaster - 17-11-2016 at 12:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  
The name i think is appropriate, parameters could be 2, with the following prototype: MODE8_SET_BACKGROUND(INT graph_first, INT graph_last), where "graph_first" would be the first graph of the animation, "graph_last" the last graph of the animation, if both have the same value you will have a static background as now.

The function would be so called out of the loop, and any change to the animation graphics would be updated in real time..


This is fine, but it would need to have a third parameter I think - anim_speed, so you can choose how fast to cycle between these graphs :D
Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  
It would only need to refresh one file in the .FPG as it's not possible to display two background on one WLD file as far as I know :)

Currently only supports a background, which utility see to have two backgrounds ?


What I meant was that there isn't a way to have different graphics for different parts of the 3d world background :) sorry for the confusion!
Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  

Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

Thanks for looking into this! As for me I'm still playing around with making effects for creating interesting WLDs so I may use them in my planned game, coming much later once 32 bit colour is in :p

Thanks to you, I am working to add support 16/32bits also for the Mode8, but requires time, the internal motor is strongly linked to the single mode 8bit, requires rewriting in many points.

If later you have a WLD of example and textures to 32bits, would be very useful for testing the new support.


Later yes, definitely :) I can understand that porting DivDX to 32 bit colour must be a very big task!!

CicTec - 17-11-2016 at 01:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

This is fine, but it would need to have a third parameter I think - anim_speed, so you can choose how fast to cycle between these graphs :D

The animation speed should be linked to the FPS set by the program, how would you set it, with real-time?
Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

What I meant was that there isn't a way to have different graphics for different parts of the 3d world background :) sorry for the confusion!

Ah, like a tile-mode, but this would create problems to the previous function, should re-evaluate the parameters to use.
Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

Later yes, definitely :) I can understand that porting DivDX to 32 bit colour must be a very big task!!

Well really no, the graphics engine to use is already very advanced, the biggest task will update the core (compiler, runtime, IDE) to support all the new features.

BreadCaster - 17-11-2016 at 01:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  
Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  

This is fine, but it would need to have a third parameter I think - anim_speed, so you can choose how fast to cycle between these graphs :D

The animation speed should be linked to the FPS set by the program, how would you set it, with real-time?


I would say that you should set anim_speed to the amount of frames to go between changing to the next graphic in the range.

Usually when I animate something and I want to slow down the animation, I do the following:

Private
anim_frame=1;
anim_c;
anim_speed=3;

...

anim_c++;
graph=anim_frame;
if (anim_c>anim_speed);
anim_frame++;
anim_c=0;
end

(That example above is for rolling through animation with no resetting/looping the animation of course ;) )

CicTec - 17-11-2016 at 01:42 AM

Is like a "delay", but linked alway to FPS, we must try as a result will give in the function, thanks for the suggestion.

CicTec - 17-11-2016 at 12:28 PM

Well, I looked at the code for the background, the internal engine creates a copy of the graph of the FPG from use as textures, also applying some transformations, for this the previous example does not work, should I check because they take place these internal transformations and if it is possible to change the engine to have a more direct integration with DIV, currently for example is using more memory than necessary.

Hikaru - 21-12-2016 at 05:21 PM

Hi... first time here, but long-time DIV, Fenix, and BennuGD coder...

Just to be quick... is there any chance of a Dreamcast port of DIV? I know that the DC isn't exactly a console that anyone really cares much about (aside from homebrew-for-money coders), but it seems that it wouldn't be too terrible of a job to port it over since the DC has a port of SDL already. Such a task is out of my league personally. I do like BennuGD, but the DC port is quite slow, and the Fenix port itself is incredibly buggy.

Just throwing that out there...

CicTec - 21-12-2016 at 06:17 PM

Hi Hikaru,

As said before, DIV is open-source now, Dreamcast is not ported at moment, but is one of the possible platforms to be ported.

tvault - 28-12-2016 at 11:20 PM

Hi,

If you want to further advertise DIV, is it worth setting up some accounts on game sites such as
Kongregate, Newgrounds, GameJolt , Itch.io etc...

DIV is a superb game creation product and I would love to see DIV get some attention again.

Any revenue made from the above sites could go towards hosting costs etc...

What do you think?

[Edited on 28-12-2016 by tvault]

Hikaru - 31-12-2016 at 12:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by CicTec  
Hi Hikaru,

As said before, DIV is open-source now, Dreamcast is not ported at moment, but is one of the possible platforms to be ported.


Thanks for your comment :)

hackwrench - 7-1-2017 at 08:46 AM

Create a hybrid DIV/QB64 compiler and you will get more people with interest in QB64. Just look for languages to merge into DIV and contribute to the original compilers' forums with the hint that the users of the forums might want to use the that language+ features of DIV. QB64 has tried to do things in such a way that it appeals to those who want to make closed source programs as much of its library has a BSD/MIT style license.
If you integrate QB64 into your code base. I can frequently mention there that they may want to use DAV instead

Also. I am having trouble finding the repository. You need more links to it on the site.

[Edited on 1-7-2017 by hackwrench]

Also, on your downloads page, you list an "assets" repository, and from there I found the rest, but you should link also/instead to the main repository there.

[Edited on 1-7-2017 by hackwrench]

MikeDX - 8-1-2017 at 12:43 PM

This QB64 sounds interesting I will look into that

I shall update the downloads page with a link to the github repo, thanks for reminding me! :)

RKSoft - 31-3-2017 at 02:30 PM

So, after some weeks. Whats about DIV future? In GitHub, there's nothing and here again. I know that everybody have a reallife with family and work. DIV is our hobby, so we shouldn't forget it. I take a look into the forum, every day, and nothing happens. :(

We lost DIV and the DIV Arena about years. Please, not again!

CicTec - 31-3-2017 at 04:40 PM

Hello RKSoft,

Unfortunately, as has already been explained, Mike does not have much time with the new job and the DIV code needs a lot of work to be corrected, modernized, etc... with no time (or lack of time) this is extremely difficult.

But do not worry, these days I'm working on something for DIV, especially in buxfix, you should be able to have a new release next month.

RKSoft - 1-4-2017 at 01:15 PM

Thanks for reply, CicTec. Its okay for me when we get a new release/version 3-6 month. And i said everbody has a reallife. But, good to know a new release is coming. I think the really bad bugs like oversize RAM need in compiled exe (ex: for windows) is the big one. :)

CicTec - 2-4-2017 at 10:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RKSoft  
Thanks for reply, CicTec. Its okay for me when we get a new release/version 3-6 month. And i said everbody has a reallife. But, good to know a new release is coming.

No problem.

Given the short time available for the development that we have for now, I think the best thing is to initially provide a release of the fully functional current version and free of bugs (or less possible bugs)
Quote: Originally posted by RKSoft  

I think the really bad bugs like oversize RAM need in compiled exe (ex: for windows) is the big one. :)

I have already fixed several bugs these days, this is top of the list to be corrected, once the reformatting of the code is finished.

As already indicated, we should be able to have a test and new beta release for this month.

RKSoft - 3-4-2017 at 02:06 PM

Great, so, i continue my work on the tilebased level editor and testgame :)

mckaygerhard - 17-5-2017 at 06:36 PM

i interesting in DIV studio due make support (and seem compiles) in older and in Linux now!

but seems there's no pointing page to instructions, start docs or whatever for new incoming users..

the github repo does not have a wiki place and the readme's inside the source code seems quite olders..

i'm interesting in porting and packagin for older linux and debian due i have many people that makes simple games, and with this now can made more complex and innovative games..

why? due in many countries OpenGL or 3D GPU are not available and so the 80% of gamming life are now cut-down.. but with this environment this can be a solution to that problem!

so then, where i can find more instructions, tecnical docs and infor for páckagin and compiling to linux!

Corax - 12-7-2017 at 03:02 PM

Greetings,

I bought DIV (it was named "Profesional Game Maker" in germany) a long time ago and didn´t expect much of it but it´s my favourite engine until today (for 2D games). I like the idea of "a game to make games".
I still have backups of programs - in the hope that it returns some day on Windows. By the way - it was a serendipity to find your Website.

There are some issues though:

Your Website isn´t very convincing.

Many games you want to download are *currently unavailable*.

Or you get messages like "404! Nope, looked everywhere. If you clicked a link on this site and got to this page - please report it on the forum".

When it comes to DIV itself, I have the following suggestions:

1. Finish the program first (until it is on the same level as the DOS version).

2. Concentrate on PC development then on the other platforms.

3. No further mode8 development. The "Unreal Engine" or "Unity" are much better at 3D.

4. Release open source code of games so that the users can learn from it. Then place tutorials on youtube.


MAKE DIV GREAT AGAIN! (sorry)

CicTec - 16-7-2017 at 03:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Corax  
Greetings,

I bought DIV (it was named "Profesional Game Maker" in germany) a long time ago and didn´t expect much of it but it´s my favourite engine until today (for 2D games). I like the idea of "a game to make games".
I still have backups of programs - in the hope that it returns some day on Windows. By the way - it was a serendipity to find your Website.

There are some issues though:

Your Website isn´t very convincing.

Many games you want to download are *currently unavailable*.

Or you get messages like "404! Nope, looked everywhere. If you clicked a link on this site and got to this page - please report it on the forum".

Hello Corax and Welcome,

Prior to what I know DIV-Arena has been restored in its "original" state since its close in 2005, some changes and improvements have been made but the work is not over, so you can find errors like the one reported and the style seems "unconvincing" I think later on will be modernized as it should.
Quote: Originally posted by Corax  

When it comes to DIV itself, I have the following suggestions:

1. Finish the program first (until it is on the same level as the DOS version).

The original DIV2 version was "complete", the new version is being ported, is now trying to complete what is missing to get everything DIV2 for DOS but for a modern platform, then we should proceed to a modernization to add new features (32bits support of colors, 3D, etc ...)
Quote: Originally posted by Corax  

2. Concentrate on PC development then on the other platforms.

Currently DIVDX supports all PC platforms (Windows, Linux, Mac).
Quote: Originally posted by Corax  

3. No further mode8 development. The "Unreal Engine" or "Unity" are much better at 3D.

Well, Real 3D like the one supported by Unity and other game engine is for AAA games/programs, mode8 is right for old-style games, I think the existence of one does not preclude the other, both have their strengths and weak.
Quote: Originally posted by Corax  

4. Release open source code of games so that the users can learn from it. Then place tutorials on youtube.

MAKE DIV GREAT AGAIN! (sorry)

Surely any games / examples alongside the program will be released open-source, then for the games produced by the users, they will themselves decide what system / license to use.

Regards.

BreadCaster - 16-7-2017 at 11:30 AM

personally i do quite like using mode 8, its fun to see how far you can push old tech sometimes :p

dom cook - 20-10-2017 at 07:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BreadCaster  
personally i do quite like using mode 8, its fun to see how far you can push old tech sometimes :p


I second that. Been having a lot of fun with it tonight. It's a bit unstable but then aren't we all?